Comments on Hit Self-Destruct: Osaka

Thanks for reading! I appreciate it.

2009-01-20T08:00:00.000+13:00

Thanks for reading! I appreciate it.

This really makes me want to play Yakuza 2. Unfort...

2009-01-19T23:33:00.000+13:00

This really makes me want to play Yakuza 2. Unfortunately, I'm way too busy to invest in a lengthy game like that.

At least I can enjoy your articles! Keep 'em up. I don't usually post comments here, but your articles are some of the only deeply interesting, thoughtful writing about games that arrive in my RSS inbox these days.

I'm sure it would be called pointless, especially ...

2009-01-19T20:13:00.000+13:00

I'm sure it would be called pointless, especially these days when hardcore gamers are hypersensitive to anything remotely "casual". I don't know what you can really do about that though, other than shrug and point to Shenmue/Animal Crossing/The Sims, which all do pretty well for themselves. It might take a beating but I doubt that it would matter much in the long run. If the developers worried about it and tried to compromise then I think that's how you end up with guns in Mirror's Edge.

The Last Express is a good analogy (and a fantasti...

2009-01-19T19:00:00.000+13:00

The Last Express is a good analogy (and a fantastic game). But as you mentioned, it's got a real strong single main narrative that everything else is anchored to.

What I worry about is that if a game were made really open and completely nonlinear, would people say it was "pointless?" I can't help but think a lot of folks would. A very strong epilogue of what impact your interactions had might help ameliorate that a lot.

Don't get me wrong, I think this kind of structure is very interesting and I'd really like to see it explored. I just think there's going to be a lot of pretty big challenges too and I hope the audience has enough trust and patience to give it a genuine evaluation.

That's a great example. You reminded me actually o...

2009-01-19T17:14:00.000+13:00

That's a great example. You reminded me actually of The Last Express, a game I absolutely love, and has a lot of similarities to your outline. You're stuck on this train for three days (which progress in real-time) and a huge part of the game is tracking all this optional character interaction. It's different in that there's a linear plot and fail states, and your character's involvement is restricted to the story events. But it captures a lot of the emotions you're talking about and it does a great job at allowing you to investigate seemingly irrelevant characters if you're interested in them.

Actually, in line with the "dramatic sidequest" id...

2009-01-19T15:49:00.000+13:00

Actually, in line with the "dramatic sidequest" idea, the movie I actually thought of with reference to your idea was Before Sunrise. With a good team of writers, you could come up with a deeply affecting game about meeting someone in a foreign city that you absolutely have to leave in a set period of time. Although often reviled, the countdown timer is a popular way element of games, movies, and even books (The Andromeda Strain comes to mind) precisely because it is a very effective way to manufacture tension. If you could create sufficiently compelling characters, a game like this would generate its own plot on each playthrough, based on which characters appealed to the player and what he could do with them in the time allotted.

Sparky: Yes, that's my concern also. I'm not convi...

2009-01-19T12:55:00.000+13:00

Sparky: Yes, that's my concern also. I'm not convinced that a game would work if it was nothing but Yakuza 2's crazy interstitials. I like that concept but I doubt its practicality. I do think that this game needed the mafia story for balance, which I don't mean to sell short -- as a design element, it's just less interesting to me personally. Although there's no reason that these minute interactions can't also be serious and dramatic. The whole game doesn't have to be a wacky comedy thing.

Nels: Yeah, exactly. If you basically reproduced Yakuza 2 and stripped out the main story then I think that would be a disaster. And the player would have to direct the overall pacing, which seems problematic. But TheGameCritique in his comment puts it well, I think: there's something to having a time limit (a weekend) that progresses regardless of the player's action, and the game becomes a question of what they can achieve in that time. Sort of like Groundhog Day, I guess. Apparently this game can only be compared to Bill Murray movies.

I feel like that idea has tremendous potential, but yeah, I wouldn't greenlight it yet.

Thanks for the link to your post, Nels, I look forward to reading it.

I've thought about this before, both in the contex...

2009-01-19T07:32:00.000+13:00

I've thought about this before, both in the context of Yakuza 2 and Fallout 3, and kind of talked about it here.

While the idea of a total open world whose content exists solely in "side quests" sounds interesting, I'm not sure it would hold up as well in actual implementation.

As you said Sparky, it's the contrast against main narrative that makes the sidequests in Yakuza 2 so delightful. Without that, I can't help be feel a game would just look like an MMORPG you can't play with anyone else. Would it be possible to make a game like that well paced and engaging? I'm honestly not sure.

Yes, but without the mafia story there would be no...

2009-01-19T04:56:00.000+13:00

Yes, but without the mafia story there would be no excuse for the scene in which Osaka Castle splits open to reveal an identical Osaka Castle made of gold hidden inside.

I think you're on to something here with that city exploration idea. At the same time, it seems to me that you're selling short the connection between the disparate parts of the game. The sidequests would make even less sense and would not have the same comic effect without the context of the bloody mafia melodrama. Similarly, the minor absurdities of the town quests soften up the player to accept the more ludicrous moments of the main plot, such as the aforementioned castle. Each part provides important context for the other.

That said, I would happily play the game you suggest. I've heard people mention the idea of using video games as a proxy for tourism before, and this is a particularly interesting take on that concept -- using the game as a way to replicate the experience of visiting the people of a city, rather than the sights.

Oh, wow, that is one hell of an idea. Actually I t...

2009-01-18T21:25:00.000+13:00

Oh, wow, that is one hell of an idea. Actually I think it could work and you yourself have suggested the method. Have it be a weekend getaway in the realistic equivelant of toonseltown. What I consider what you've just described. Have the goal be about the recreation and the soty follow a path of if you've leanred anything about life or work vs. play. Ok a little meta in that last one. The market has moved towards having collections of minigames, well why not put them in a narrative structure like that you've suggested. It doesn't even have to be a full city like Osaka or a New York knock off ala Liberty City. A small sea side town on the Jersey Shore would suffice. Now I want to work on the design document.